tv Headline News RT May 24, 2013 11:00am-11:45am EDT
the failure of u.k. security services to prevent the beheading of a soldier in london puts them under scrutiny as the islamist linked attack threatens to further divide british society. riots rage on for a fifth night in stock going with schools and cars set on fire police have pleaded for reinforcements to contain violence in the swedish capital. the evolution of the war on terror again values to show. that defends the cia's drone strikes as heartbreaking but necessary. good to have you company you're watching r.t.
coming to you live from moscow with me and you're a farmer. now british security forces will face serious questions from parliament over the machete murder of a soldier in london it's been revealed that two of the suspects have been known to m i five for some time the alleged attackers beheaded their victim in broad daylight on wednesday saying it was revenge for britain's military action abroad r.t. sara first reports from london. a flag at half mast a grizzly attack with a machete style knife and a murdered soldier his death leaves behind a two year old son they seemingly behind this grissom act seeking to bring scenes of violence usually seen in war ravaged parts of the world to the london suburb of will it in a poignant interview r.t. spoke to an army officer he told us of the reaction among some in the armed forces to remain anonymous anger of the moment. not scared
maybe scared you never hear someone. maybe you'll be scared i witness accounts of the precise attack details the men chanting islam is slogans as the body of soldier drama leverage be a second battalion the royal regiment to use the layers they only pleading they asked people to d.d.a. then if you listen to the words of the attackers themselves it's clear that they will wish to bring the war which they saw prosecuted on the streets of baghdad and kabul to the streets of london but speaking at a press conference london mayor boris johnson okayed many senior political figures trying to distance this latest act of violence in the case of recent a.b.c.'s exploits this is not a question of blaming the religion of islam it is certainly not a question of blaming any aspect of british foreign policy or what our british troops are do in operations abroad when they risk our lives on behalf of all of us
the london mayor in charge at the time of the london two thousand and five bombings disagrees they are lying they are completely complicit with the united states policy to cite tony blair was with george bush they are prepared to stand and say well we think this strategy has been a disaster it has been just announced not just for the young man killed on the streets of london but for the hundreds of thousands of. people in afghanistan and in iraq who've been killed a simple reality usually played out the people's countries. come back it's one side of an argument but one that's going to be weighing heavily on many now that this has hit so close to home you feel less secure i think that's what. you think if we went out there then perhaps i'd be more space scope for al qaeda to produce the sounds they'd be operate more within the u.k.
because when we're out there we're constricted space and not allowing that freedom and they've run out and that means their base of operations i mean it was we can both say the arguments we might because we're out there we're inspiring the more motivating them presence out there is sort of motivating the cells that back in the u.k. to operate more and carry out more attacks as the police investigation continues a deep sense of shock and outrage from the local community here in southeast london at that briefing that tag and they sentiment echoed across the country as people struggle to come to terms with how a crime like that could happen here. london in the german from stop the war coalition says there has already been a spike in attacks against muslims in britain following the savage murder. well certainly there are some people who wanted to drive a wedge the fascists and the far right are trying to use this to divide people at
the moment the vast majority of people do not accept. that attempt to one attempt to succeed but of course one of the things that's happening in the media and elsewhere is that there's a demonization of muslims so this is resulting certainly in a rise in the tax on mosques and other muslim buildings which result it's resulting in a raw is in racism against muslims who are paying a whole number of incidents of people who have been attacked in the street or and so on and of course we really don't want this to happen and we totally reject the idea that somehow muslims are part of our society there are many many muslims in london and elsewhere in britain but there are many people from all over the world in bonn launch london society which is very successfully managed to develop
a society which is which is highly diverse cultural a racially and so on and we don't want much of trying. well the alleged boston bombers who carried out the attack on the city's marathon had similar motives the message the left in the boat he was hiding in referred to u.s. military for a saying when you attack one muslim you attack limbs one of the london machete killers was shown on video saying his attack was an eye for an eye and it through tooth because british soldiers kill muslims every day but if cases appear to involve a terrorist known as lone wolves meaning they're not attached to any terror network early in my colleague bill dog discussed this with r.t. . it looks like we're looking at something of a new phenomenon in the so-called open-source jihad there's a website out there it's actually a periodical online magazine which provides all sorts of recipes for disaster literally for example how to make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom from the chef and you can uses
a pressure cooker in order to do that it says the ingredients are readily available they're not going to cause any suspicion if you're going to purchase them and you will basically get away with murder literally now this is not the only recipe that's out there so to speak they're also talking about techniques to wipe out large numbers of people there are also a dish there's also an edition on how to blow up buildings and so on and so forth as a matter of fact the even have in addition targeted. muslim women and suicide bombers and it's positioned as a lifestyle and fashion magazine and it sounds almost borderline observateur or on the borderline funny but it's not because literally there is a plethora of information out there on the internet and it basically teaches people how to kill other people and you annoy we can access this the security services doing about this because clearly they know where it's coming from go they do something absolutely yes it does seem like they're actually keeping track of in some instances we know that in both cases there are seven killers as well as this
one i have brothers were under the radar but the main question of course is why didn't the authorities do anything to prevent the attacks. i'm happening because we're looking at an enormous a number of young men primarily of. muslim faith who are out there reading these websites and they're the target audience of these websites and they can essentially be there on our terrorist thing there's a good thing they would be under the cap of the authorities and yet it doesn't seem like the authorities have done anything to prevent these attacks from happening of course to keep people from dying and that is the main problem that we're facing here right now so what do you think about this murder you can join a vote on our web site and this is how you are voting so far more than half of you fifty seven percent believe it is blowback against u.k. wars abroad nineteen percent say it was an act of violence by mad men then fifteen percent say was an isolated act of homegrown terror and the remainder that nine
percent believe that this murder was orchestrated by foreigners so you do have time to cast your vote all you have to do is go to r.t. dot com. stockholm is reading is two schools a police station and dozens of cars were set ablaze in the fifth night of riots twelve people were arrested as rioters and police clashed with stone throwing youths him paul largely immigrant districts of the swedish capital artie's peter all of a now reports from the suburb of course be where the troubles first fled. nice neat and normal not the type of place you would expect to see this. but
speak on the outskirts of stockholm the epicenter of sweden's issues with race and that's bubbling over in sweden you get welfare you get access to the education system up to university level you get access to public transport to libraries to health care to everything and still they feel that they need to throw stones and molotov cocktails it's ridiculous it's a bad excuse the violence in the peaceful city become political football. democrats are exploiting these events they make it all about immigration to suit their needs they see being anti immigrant as being pro-choice. for the past week stone throwing in car burning become the norm in this part of town known for its high unemployment predominantly immigrant population all sparked after a sixty nine year old man was gunned down by police while brandishing a knife that let loose a barrage of emotions it's think what it creates as
a type of gets wise ation of men so they move everyone from the road into these parts of town when it comes to unemployment sweden is below average of almost one quarter of under twenty five out of work prompting some to say it's time for further action saying a lack of control by government has led them to the situation the police can put these right down in five minutes if the politicians were to allow them. although swedes. caused this week's violence they are in agreement that it's government policy that must be changed to avoid scenes like this being repeated on the streets of peter all of a sweet. remember we do have plenty more stories for you online including. spread three russia with an eight point two magnitude earthquake off the country's far east coast thousands of miles away in the capital and cutting edge technology
saves a child's life american just before unprecedented surgery repairing a one year olds a waste with a name on a three d. printer you can read the full story it's our website. good lumber a tour of. the building. fortunately. mission to teach creation why it should care about humans and. this is why you should care only. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems. you think you understand it and then something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything. becomes a big picture.
hello welcome back a new face to the war on terror was unveiled by president obama in a major speech on america's national defense policies for the second time in five years he again promised to try and shut down tandem obey but when it came to drone warfare the president appeared less enthusiastic about change promising only vague guidelines for washington correspondent dan as this report. president obama says
he's appointing new people new on voice at the state department and the pentagon who will specifically work on the transfers of guantanamo detainees he did not really specify when the transfers will begin or how this will be done but he did say the administration is lifting the ban on transfers to yemen the yemenis are the largest single group of prisoners at guantanamo fifty six out of eighty six detainees who have been cleared for release are from yemen president obama also says he asked congress to lift restrictions on bringing the detainees to the u.s. to be tried by military commissions here in the state looks like after all these years of inaction indifference and injustice one time a detainees finally got to president obama's attention whether it was just really sad that it took a massive hunger strike and so much physical suffering for them to be heard remember we've heard president obama talk about closing the prison five years ago nothing happened moreover he signed a law that made indefinite detention illegal he shut down the office of the state department that was working on the transfers and just two months ago
a pentagon official was in congress asking for nearly two hundred million dollars to renovate the prison so just a little while ago the prospect of closing the prison seemed so very distant now it seems we could be seeing some action on the part of the administration but president obama has never been a guantanamo fan his preferred strategy is targeted assassinations the administration has been very secretive about how they determine the targets innocent people have died in those strikes and it has contributed to the growth of extremism in places like pakistan but we've heard the president mitigate the adverse effect that the drone strikes are having he of course underscored that the drones keep u.s. troops out of the battlefield he spoke extensively about how much he likes drones as opposed to other military strategies at one point he said putting u.s. troops on the ground would trigger an international crisis would lead to more anger among the locals which begs the question where the bombing from air does not trigger an international crisis or whether the local somehow like being bombed more
than being shot it the u.n. has questioned the legality of the use of drones and here's how the president addressed the issue america cannot take strikes wherever we choose or actions are bound by consultations with partners and respect for state sovereignty. america does not take strikes to punish individuals we act against terrorists who pose a continuing and imminent threat to the american people when the president talks about consultations with other countries one should mention that you have the whole population of pakistan its parliament unanimously opposing the drone strikes so the administration may be in consultation with the governments of those countries but obviously not the people there the president said this wednesday he signed a presidential policy guidance on the use of drones which is supposed to lead to the establishment of some guidelines oversight and accountability now also on the issue of legality did mr ations still operate under the congress authorization for
the use of military force adopted in two thousand and one which says the u.s. is at war with al qaeda and its affiliates based on the threats that the president talked about in the speech and he talked about the threat coming from al qaeda affiliates different parts of the world the war on terror is still on and the drones are here to stay so a bomber is going to have another try then it's just england town and nobody but attorney david remes who represents seventeen when time to move by inmates says he's off to an even worse start the second attempt. we had been led to expect at least in the media that president obama would do something constructive all he offered however were the same empty promises that he's offered before he continues to defend indefinite detention he is going to appoint an envoy who has no power to do anything beyond what obama allows him to do he keeps plame in congress for the problem when he has the authority to transfer men and appointing
a special envoy actually he didn't he simply designated a point person within the pentagon to address these issues my fear is that people will conclude from listening to this speech that there is forward motion the problem has been solved guantanamo is closed and everybody can go on to other things that's exactly what happened in two thousand and nine and i'm very sorry that there was no forward movement here well exultant democrats are hiding a bomb this speech is a new beginning a sentiment though not shed by republicans they accuse the president of sacrificing national security even during a bomb a speech that his dissent with and i'm great audience member of being a school would act with my colleague i the cross he outlined why the woman force the bomb to go off script something that we haven't seen really before was that the presidential veneer the the obama veneer was punctured somewhat by a heckler in the audience and i think we can have a listen to have
a look at how obama dealt with not he we went on through. we went on. i. were addressing america. the heckler was media benjamin of code pink with the heckling itself and that it took place is a real indication of. angry people are as far as we could pick up on the audio she she she pretty much addressed every element of obama's obama's speech so she called on him to compensate families who have been destroyed by joint strike drone strikes and she called on them to close guantanamo bay called called on him to release the
prisoners who have been set for release for up to ten years from the camp but he dealt with he's a consummate performer and he dealt with it very well as any politician of his stature would he be he pointed the fact that free speech allowed this lady to have an opinion and he felt she went on a bit and i think at that stage he added after a minute or so we had certainly had enough for me the key takeaway is that the policy of man drone strikes needs to be changed obama is definitely trying to move responsibility for grown strikes drone strikes out of the shadow of the cia and into the department of defense and he's certainly trying to do something about guantanamo but i think the key takeaway the key lesson is that these two elements of u.s. policy of the so-called war on terror are absolutely unsustainable when it comes to obama's drone based war on terrorism north and activist david swanson feels the changes the president proposed don't go far enough. he claims that he is going to
further limit his murder by drone program including applying these arbitrary criteria met in secret by himself to his own satisfaction and if these reforms and limitations are needed on this program then what of the conduct of this program here too for what security threat was a sixteen year old boy what security threat are the thousands of victims of these drone strikes including children and women and seniors and so-called signature strikes these are strikes to kill people without knowing their name based on behavior that suggests they might be resisting an occupation of their country what about strikes at rescuers well documented strikes at the rescuers of victims of previous strikes what imminent threat to the united states are those strikes preventing or are they not rather the economy. a new primary recruiting tool
of anti-american terrorism let's go back to our story i'm writing in the swedish capital ny for analysis we are joined by. in mt thank you very much for joining us you are a member of the swedish democrats we should note which does have an anti immigration political policy we should say but firstly what you believe as cool as these riots is it fair to blame youth unemployment which is at around thirty percent in some districts well let me start by saying that i remember. we were. partners and women. were. certainly i didn't call him right or youth you know and i for reagan you know how many right words are being warm term the kind of things were heard and now here are. but we think riots flare up in maumee five years
a guy violence is hitting stock. what can be done to stop it happening is what really is the requirement in sweden you should go are of what a correct amount of you have. read what i. have said so many in denmark you know open the. door where you have hot open debate and . actually need to break one of the execution star in reading these star rating of all things among other issues like what. happened then. and coming learn lessons from other parts of europe i say that because of the similarities between the riots we've seen in london in twenty eleven will in paris for example that we've seen flare up from time to time well there are similarities and there are also. arguments for. if you are going to do anything because
one must. return general. he actually does more to immigrants that is like it is the case in for a long or longer but it is indeed the never. ending story like bombing them to march on a grieving brother me it is high time that we can start making them aren't immigrants and then you have to vote on the language you happen to do something more good and. except right. and how long do you think the solution might produce some results i mean is it something that we can expect to see in place in a number of months in a number of years how long would it take. well you know. so the court really jump when immigrants are. trying to go to our. program.
so first and foremost there is a need for very real real immigration policy which means that when there are so many joe then there is a new number if the. immigration party and that's in the in the immigrant mind you these are just really well things i read in my blog i'm going to spark them immigrants war sure you can grab this you joke before you are inviting more and more readers ok we do have to leave it there thank you very much that a few thoughts and for coming on to r.t. today that is me should a food union g.i. a member of the swedish democrats thank you thank you very much of some other international news in brief and i british find that british fighter jets have to set did a passenger plane arriving from pakistan after a security scare was reported on board the aircraft was forced to make an emergency
landing just north of london and was raided by police two men were arrested for reportedly making bomb threats that officials say the comments were likely made in anger u.k. is currently on high alert following a terror attack in london. the u.n. has footage that could confirm syrian rebels used chemical weapons in aleppo in march the material provided by russian journalist includes video from the site of the alleged incident and interviews with eyewitnesses and doctors and examine the victims is still unclear whether it was the rebels or the syrian army he used he used the alleged weapons u.n. experts have been stopped from investigating by syria he keys them of being on the western pressure. while the gun fight is raging in the center of afghanistan's capital kabul taliban militants have reportedly barricaded themselves in a government building it started after two powerful explosions one of which hit
close to the hospital used by the country's intelligence agency the blast collapsed part of the building's wall but there have been no reports so far of casualties. and the international monetary fund chief has arrived at a special court in paris for the second day christine lagarde is being questioned over her role in a four hundred million euro payoff to a controversial businessman or she was france's finance minister the payment was allegedly used to settle a dispute with the state owned bank the case is being seen as an example of the cozy relationship between the country's elite and the government. move you see you in about thirty minutes time next. we've crossed.
paranoia and zero tolerance policies strike yet again the latest in a string of children being punished for making gun noises or playing with toy guns involves the son of a u.s. marine who had the audacity as a child to use his imagination and p. pretended his pencil was our gun bang children imitate what they see in every t.v. channel and in many video games kids are going to see a lot of guns in fact the boy at that moment was admirably pretending to be just like his father a us marine you know guns kind of come with that job description rather than complain you all again about the obvious idiocy of zero tolerance policies against children playing let me give one suggestion to actually help fix the problem there are so many teachers and school administrators across america that i bet many of you know one of them try talking them about the madness of zero tolerance a lot of people do things just because they were told to or they never thought about it before so please dear friends try to get teachers you know to actually
think about it i can complain on t.v. all day long but one conversation from a friend or relative really could change many people's minds maybe but that's just my opinion. this is. a low and welcome the crosstalk for all things are considered i'm peter lavelle suicide bombing sectarian strife central authorities losing control and
a great sense of despair in the lack of enfranchise from not only describing syria but also iraq the recent spike two bombings and terror attacks in iraq have many concerned the country could collapse into civil war it would appear this part of the world has no shortage of shock and awe as result of western backed military interventions. cross-talk iraq i'm joined by my guests in washington michael o'hanlon he is a senior fellow at the brookings institution. journalist at antiwar dot com and we also have grant smith he is director of institute for research middle eastern policy right cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want kelli i'm going to cut to the chase is iraq going into civil war sectarian civil war well as we've seen in the last week or so we've seen an alliance with the sunni . factions in iraq with the al qaeda backed factions in syria
so we are starting to see what worse peaceful sunni protests in iraq turned violent and i think if that's a bellwether for things to come where we are we're seeing peaceful protest turned violent because of al qaeda stepping up its attacks the violence i think there was almost four hundred my know there was seven hundred killings of civilians in iraq last month. up to four hundred this week i think so if that's any indication not looking good michael not any good indications coming out of iraq is the country in a state of collapse well i don't know if it's in collapse or civil war i agree with the way kelly put it that things are very worrisome so i'm not going to try to predict the inevitability of collapse or civil war i think that would be a big mistake and not yet warranted by the evidence and i think the rockies have a great reluctance to return to the horrible days of where they were just
a short time ago so if anything we do have that factor working in our favor that iraq ease are going to resist returning to all out sectarian conflict because they've lived it they've seen it and they know that if they return to that there is no particular reason to think it will stop there's no intervening party no outside force that's going to stop at this time however there mistrust for each other especially among political leaders is a lot more intense than it was just two or three years ago and that makes it harder to prevent the descent into worse things so that you might go to the u.s. the u.s. supports the political arrangement in iraq a lot of people would call it a dictatorship how do you react to that. it's moving way too closely towards autocracy for my taste i think that prime minister maliki has made some big mistakes in the last few months that have essentially exceeded his power i think
he's put out arrest warrants for example for people who were patriotic iraqi leaders because he had political disagreements with them mr assad is a good example a very good man a man i've met a man i've respected i think a sunni but also a nationalist a person who wants to serve his country and unbelievably maliki wanted to have him arrested that sort of thing is extraordinarily destructive and so i share the concern i get i i'm not going to use words quite as strong as the ones you're using but i share the concern that we're headed in directions we don't want to go and that maliki is acting in an autocratic fashion ok grant jump in i mean the u.s. started this mess in the first place go ahead yeah i think michael o'hanlon predictive not too long ago that we'd see devolution in the shia stand sunni stan and kurdistan entirely predictable when you go into a contrary with strong central authority remove it remove the army and let all hell
break loose basically over a period of years of various ethnic cleansing in the population of areas of refugees of course i mean entirely predictable and what neither of them have mentioned is there's absolutely no sign that this is going to stop anytime soon so i think we're really reaping the whirlwind of what was essentially a huge scam perpetrated on the american people to get them to go into this country and we haven't learned anything from it at all kelly would you like to pick up on that scam and we haven't learned anything. well i think i think ryan crocker recently former ambassador to iraq said it best when he described our our ethos and the american ethos we we go in there we knock things about we break things and we pledge to rebuild and when we find that it's
a little more difficult than anticipated we we leave and i think that says it all i mean when you have somebody in a stablish me a figure saying that who is ascribing to us our inability to follow through on our promises that that says a lot and i think that's exactly what happened we went in there the invasion didn't really go as planned we will be done soon under. a government that's an understatement there's an understatement but what i'm getting to is is not only did the military let's take the military side out of it we have not been able to help reconstruct that country and they are so many metrics that i can go on for days but you know i think if i could make my point i think if you want to look at the best measure of failure success is look at the children in iraq and i think if
a country success is based on whether it can provide educate and keep its children safe if we apply that to a rack we're looking at that failure and i do not think is that his that is what we set out to do every magic trick whether it be education mental health safety we that there are failing miserably in iraq that is our legacy there and in that is what we are going to have to face in in years to come you know michael and to colin powell's that if you break it you own it so it's a ploy by two iraq. well there's a lot to talk about on iraq and i know where we're mixing in a lot of different periods of time in our discussion and a lot of different issues you know i was a critic of some parts of the iraq mission i was a supporter of some parts of the iraq mission i'm a little less critical than grants of the idea that we. quickly left or you know somehow or the as kelly just said that we didn't have staying power i mean i think
we left a little too soon but we were also there for a very long time and part of what this underscores is just the inherent difficulty so on that point i do agree with ground inherent difficulty of going it was mistaken grant go ahead if that's what the debate is about if that's where the debate is about how you go there but let me just finish one point with ok go ahead michael finish your point go ahead. yeah i mean i think the frankly the moderator you may need to tell us which issue also want to debate because i think there are a lot of different things we're doing talking about the iraqi state that's what we're talking about that was in the introduction that ok it was clear that was that was your word which i disagree with my point is if the iraqi state were already collapsed and we were just going to revisit the ten years of history then we that's one debate i would actually rather think about how we can try to avoid the collapse which i do not believe so do you think the united states should go back. should the
u.s. go back into iraq then you break it you won't it not militarily no not militarily but you're conflating the very unfortunate events of the last few months and last couple of years in iraq with the dog days of two thousand other times i'm not i'm saying it was perfectly predictable this ok grant you want to jump in. yeah here's here's the key metric the bottom line is if you take brown university's cost of the iraq war metric this is what americans care about by the way the united states net present value investment through twenty fifty in iraq is now six trillion dollars a lot of that money flowed into crony contractors that said they were going to build schools and institutions and government in a box and all of that crap it never happened americans have been left on the hook for the equivalent of an entire half year of g.d.p. this was basically taking what could have been productive investments in education
housing infrastructure building in the united states and throwing it into an iraqi burn pit and now to add insult to injury we have this country that again our invasion was a scam the american people were given a series of different hoaxes and frauds for why they needed to go in now we're left. hearing the same talking points from the same people who got us into there about what we should do next i think the scary thing is is that a lot of the institutions that were so gung ho to get into iraq have turned of course our attention to iran that could cost of the tired years worth of g.d.p. do invade and fail and so i think this conversation that we're having needs to be a little bit broader and connects the key concerns here in america which is which
are basically why is our policy making so. so terribly broken ok michael you would like to reply about any parts of that. well there are a lot of thoughtful parts of what grant said and we share some of the same concerns some different concerns but i actually i'm going to put the question back to you mr moderator to tell me what question you most want to focus on today because if we're talking about the decision to invade iraq i mean that we have whatever saying it happened the entire event the war years and now we have this that was perfectly predictable isn't it ok the surge the fall surge and now we're seeing it again good it's not that simple go ahead then reply ok if the issue now is what do we do about iraq today no we're not going to return militarily that's absolutely the united states are all going to glean from what has happened in iraq partially ok but i think the more what do i do about it now well what should we do about it
you know excuse me what should we do about it i miss the what should we do about it yeah that's what i was trying to say a minute ago. do we have a time lag on this communication trying to answer that question well it looks like you don't really want to but you don't want to answer the question all right well wasting time here we're going to get when i can get it how it would show a short break here and when we return we'll do continue our discussion on iraq stay with hockey. please.
a clear image of iraq after inflation. twenty day taxi trip through the country. the road full of. clear evidence from north to south. the roots of iraqi tragedy. after the war waiting for peace. talks e t. choose your language. of holy week over the internet there is still some of that. choose the good consensus you can. choose the opinions that invigorating to.
choose the stories that impact your life choose the access to your office. with. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter about to mind you we're discussing events unfolding in iraq. we still have kelly and grant michael decided to leave the program i guess he didn't like the questions grant you want to jump in right now all right you know yeah peter this is the problem in the united states we don't have rough and tumble conversations like this between informed analysts so you know i'm not surprised
that michael hamlin decided to leave but you know let's just think about his think tank is a microcosm of the iraq invasion problem in two thousand and two the brookings institution was a centrist progressive think tank that didn't have a strong line about iraq what happened early spring of two thousand and two israeli american media mogul haim so bond moved in carved out this a bond center at brookings by paying thirty million dollars and suddenly martin in the and all of the people at that unit war on the war path for going into iraq and so a person like o'hanlon who's been flip flopping about was that good was it bad he no longer has much of a track record to even talk about the current problems because he was part of creating this current problem so i'm really not surprise.